Exam Before Council - Index
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PAGE 218

Mr Liv. My Lord, I doe indeed believe and confess, that Jesus Christ is the only Head of his Church, and that he only hath power to appoint a government and discipline for rcmoveing of offences in his [own] house, which is not dependent upon civill powers, and nowayes wrongs civil powers. But withall, I acknowledge his Majesty to have a cumulative power and inspection in the house of God, for seeing both the tables of the law keeped; and that his Majesty hath all the ordinary power that was in the kings of Israel and Judah, and in the Christian emperors and kings, since the primitive times, for reforming, according to the word, what is amiss.

L. Ch. We doe not say that the king hath power to ordain ministers, or to excommimicat, and, therefore, are you not free to take the oath?

Mr Liv. My Lord, in the terms I have expressed, I am free to take it; for1 I know not if it would be well taken off my hand to add one word, or to give an explication of the oath which the Right Honourable the States of Parliament hath set doun.

L. Ch. Nay, it is not in the power of the Councill so to do.

Mr Liv. I have always been of that judgement, and am, and will be, that his Majesty is supream govemour in a civill way over all persons, and in all causes.

L. Commissioner. You may not say that you have allwayes been of that judgement, for you have been opposite to the king, and so have many here, and so have I been; but now it is requisite that we profess our obedience to him, and would wish you to doe so. You are to consider that there is a difference between a church to be constitute and a church constitute; for when it is to be constitute, ministers and professors may doe their work upon their hazard: but when a church is constitute with the consent of the civil magistrat, who hath power to appoint the bounds of parishes, and the stipends, he may appoint the bishops his commissioners, and ordain them to keep synods, and ordain ministers to come to these synods.



**************

1    "But."

PAGE 219

Mr Liv. May it please your Grace, I hope the churches that are mentioned in the Acts of the Apostles were constitute churches, although they had not the1 concurrence of the civil magistrate.

L. Ch. You have heard many things spoken; will you not take some time to advise whether you will take the oath or not?

Mr Liv. I humbly thank your Lordship, it is a favour which, if I had any doubt or hesitation, I would willingly accept; but seeing, after seeking God, and advising anent the matter, I have such darkness2 as I use to get in such things, if I should take time to advise, it would import that I have uncleaness, or hesitation, which I have not; and I judge it were a kind of mocking your Lordship to take time, and then return and give your Lordship the same answer.

L. Ch. Then you are not for new light?

Mr Liv. Indeed I am not, if it please your Grace.

L. Ch. Then you will remove yourself.

Being removed, and called in again,

L. Ch. The Lords of his Majesty's Councill have ordained that within two moneths you remove out of his Majesty's dominions, and that within forty-eight hours you remove out of Edinburgh, and goe to the north side of Tay, and their remain till you depart forth3 of the countrey.

Mr Liv. I submitt to your Lordship's sentence ; but I humbly beg that I may have a few dayes to goe home and see my wife and children.

L. Ch. By no means; you may not be suffered to goe to that countrey.

Mr Liv. Against what time must I goe to the north of Tay?

L. Com. You may be there against Saturnday come seven night.

Mr Liv. What if it be stormy, or I not able to travell?

L. Com. Doe it with all convenient diligence.4]

Mr Liv. Well, although it be not penuitted me that I should



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1    "Although they wanted the."

2    Sic in MS.

3    "Out."

4    These two lines are supplied from Mr M'Crie's MS.






        
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